Bill Moyer Had Powell Aide Thielman's Story First

NOW Transcript June 13, 2003

BUSH [3/17/03]: Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq Regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.

MOYERS: I remember watching him say that on television. And I thought nuclear weapons.

THIELMANN: I think that's exactly the reaction that anyone would have hearing that statement. I mean, the most lethal weapons ever devised ever by far are nuclear weapons. It's not a good way to inform the public if, in fact, he was talking about biological and chemical weapons.

MOYERS: In your mind though, you know, the President takes an oath of office to defend the Constitution, as did you. And if he is weighing this evidence of whether or not Saddam Hussein has or doesn't have, is or hasn't started up his nuclear program again, you could understand why the President would come down on the side of not giving this horrible despot the benefit of the doubt.

THIELMANN: If one assumed that the threat was that imminent. The intelligence community as a whole in our considered wording and advice did not give the President the impression that there was an imminent threat.

THIELMANN: Our judgment was that Iraq had not reconstituted its nuclear weapons program in the sense that that's generally understood. And that it was a long way from posing an imminent security threat. It was not on the verge of acquiring enough fissile material to use in weapons. It was not… it did not have long range weapons of mass destruction that could pose even a threat to our allies in Europe or to the United States.

MOYERS: So you concluded that there was no immediate or imminent threat from Iraq?

THIELMANN: From Iraq. Across the board, that's right.

MOYERS: No imminent nuclear threat.

THIELMANN: No imminent nuclear threat. But in terms of biological and chemical weapons threats, these were not what I would call an imminent security threat to the United States.

MOYERS: So, when the Vice President of the United States says, "There's no doubt Saddam has weapons of mass destruction," he is lumping together nuclear weapons, which are clearly…

THIELMANN: Yeah.

MOYERS: …weapons of mass destruction. And chemical and biological weapons, which may not be.

THIELMANN: Well, that's my view of it. And in fact, the one thing that we should have made clear to the American people was that Saddam had no nuclear weapons.

MOYERS: So why after twenty-five years in the foreign service has Greg Thielmann gone public now, especially since the United States has taken out one of the world's most brutal dictators?

THIELMANN: I would certainly acknowledge that the departure of Saddam is something to feel very good about. That, to me, is not the issue. To me, the issue is speaking truthfully to the American people. And I'm not sure that I'm willing to accept the notion or I'm not that cynical to say that in order to get the citizens in a democracy to defend themselves, you have to distort the information provided to them, in order for them to do what needs to be done. I don't think that's a justified point of view.