Reply to Eric

I edited my previous comment about the current Sad Puppy leader. No need for profanity.

My new comment on Eric Flint's proposal and clarification:

This controversy over popularity over quality has divided speculative fiction for at least 50 years and is built in to all awards.

Correia's original complaints at least to me sounded like the complaints about why wasn't the original Fast and Furious movie nominated for an Oscar.

On his second point, I would instead expand the novel category by genre, fantasy, hard science, young adult, etc.

I will have to think about short novel and series as separate awards.

End.

http://www.ericflint.net/index.php/2015/04/23/more-on-the-hugos-from-a-dark-dark-place/


His commenting system is either turned off or has an error. It gives a wrong error message on whatever I submit.

Brad Torgersen has Wonky Wrong Brains

"
“In the last decade .  .  . we’ve seen the Hugo voting skew ideological, as Worldcon and fandom alike have tended to use the Hugos as an affirmative action award: giving Hugos because a writer or artist is (insert underrepresented minority or victim group here) or because a given work features (insert underrepresented minority or victim group here) characters,” observes science fiction writer Brad R. Torgersen."

A Reply to Larry Correia - a backlash against what? #SadPuppies #HugoAwards

As I was reading Larry's response to George R. R. Martins post I jotted down some impressions.

Reactions as I read this:

Whinny Ass Titty Baby. Although that is doing what he is doing, making an insulting remark to start out.

He thinks he has a sense of humor but doesn't. Like that loud immature jerk in college or high school or your early jobs that laughs at his own insulting made up abbreviations for people.

Casually slams and smears other people, probably because he feels it was done to him.

Hung out drinking with bitter older conservatives at his first World Con and became convinced the awards were all a conspiracy by some liberal connected elitists.

Over estimates the numbers of his crowd and the widespread knowledge of their in-jargon. Half the people do not and did not know what SJW (Social Justice Warriors) was and why you would even think or use that term. And, of course,it is another insulting generalization.

Wow, he invokes Heinlein, controversial even when alive and getting awards, but forgets it is the Sad Puppies he started that crowded his biography off the ballot after they forgot about it.

Won't give up on insulting Social Justice Warrior term because he has used it so much and he feels it justifies all of his actions despite it's rarity of use and it's insulting nature.

Wow, just wow: " When you have professional culture warriors like Brianna Wu and Arthur Chu, who make their livings off of generating political controversy, saying that Brad Torgersen’s two decades of interracial marriage is just a shield to hide his true secret racism, then yes, there is a serious tone problem."

There are some really, really touchy people on both sides of this political/religious/cultural divide and casual conversations/comments/posts/tweets can set them off. Conversations got heated because this really seemed that segments of fandom were finally getting awarded and recognized for their contributions when what seems to many like a backlash from conservatives developed because they were feeling excluded. Comments about racism were tossed about too casually, then loud heated objections to comments about racism were tossed about. A picture was posted that showed the interracial family of someone accused of possibly being racist. And then the question was asked is that being used as a shield?

Stop it, both sides, just stop it and grow up.

Mistakes were made. On both sides.

He seems calmer at the end and is backing up accusations with facts about people looking at past nominations. The problem is that the main comparison is between a new writer versus an established professional and between books with very different appeals - Monster Hunters is or was a niche market that doesn't attract much attention from big prestigious reviewers no matter how much some fans like it or how popular it was. That is like complaining why wasn't the first Fast and Furious movie nominated for an Oscar.

So are the Puppies slates a reaction to conservatives not being nominated for awards, or a reaction to after many years a mass of liberals and feminists winning a bunch of awards and a formerly privileged class feeling excluded? Although the Puppy ringleaders are new entrants into the field they represent the conservative old timers who often dominated the Hugos in years past.

You've got me on that, at least he makes his points in his post.

Still he avoids the turd in the punch bowl, Vox Day, who I feel bought a publisher and may have bought many nominating memberships to stick it to SFWA and the most prestigious award in fandom. His adapting and expanding the Sad Puppy slate is why many good nominations were excluded this year.

See my previous post for my too hasty response to Brad Torgersen.

A Reply to Brad Torgersen -Sad Puppies cut down on diversity. ‪#‎HugoAwards‬

Congratulations on your lovely wife and family. I am sure she must be a saint if she has put up with you for this long. ;-)

You avoid mentioning your follower who was more successful than you and seems to have enabled both yours and his success. I am referring to Vox Day and the Rabid Puppy slate you avoid mentioning.

While I disagree with your politics and analysis of the world and your seemingly quick replacement of reason and discourse with snark it is still in the rational spectrum. The writer known as Vox Day and his followers are irrational haters and were better organized and better financed and had a plan that worked. And he is a bigoted religious right wing nut job openly very hostile to gays who was kicked out of the Science Fiction Writers Association for bigoted smearing messages about another writer on their letterhead. He now desires vengeance against the SF community. He is wealthy enough from his radical right Christian family’s involvement in media and politics to buy a Finnish publishing company to have a vehicle to make himself an editor and compatible writers eligible for awards and SFWA membership. He also has his religious politically conservative End Times followers willing to follow his commands on voting. He has enough money to gift them with supporting memberships. And he had a plan.

Your Sad Puppy slate was well designed. Although mainly appealing to one type of reader, SFF contains multitudes, you consolidated 30+ follower recommendations to 2-4 to concentrate your followers votes. This tactic was very likely to be more successful than last year. You took care to have a diverse slate where not everything was crap and had some good nominations. But Vox Dey (homonym for Voice Of God) expanded each of your nominations in an effort not to ensure that conservative voices were heard but to lock out every other voice in each category. In categories with not many nominations his Rabid Slate votes when combined with your Sad Slate succeeded. How rabid and sad.

You have been played by a more extremist, more experienced player with more resources. Your Sad Puppy slate to bring more diversity to the Hugo Awards instead locked out nominees and brought less because of his actions. Not to mention some of the nominees are just political correctness on the other side. Your side. Six nominations for a minor writer just because he published rants against liberals and gays popular in online conservative circles? Talk about agendas. You have become worse than those you railed against.

Lovely family, sorry about stupid journalists.

This is a corrected comment originally placed on his blog from a small iPhone terrible with long comments on blogs.